thank you. I loved the film and I read a lot of negative reviews that made me feel that everyone who didn't like the movie disliked it because they didn't understand it, but yours proves that idea wrong.
I also read that "the director thinks we're stupid" several times and in that scene specifically I think that the many signs the old man was the young man, weren't for viewers, but were for Elisabeth because she was so deep in denial that she needed that many signs. But maybe I'm biased because I really liked the film.
that’s a totally valid reading of the scene. there was definitely a lot i liked about the movie also and i’m curious to see how/if my feelings change on a rewatch!
This was a lovely read, but I just wanted to add that I think aging and loosing one’s good looks is particularly hard and salient for Elisabeth Sparkle and the real life women like her because their entire life they’ve been told that the ONLY thing of value about them is their appearance. Moreover, from an early age, they’ve been conditioned to think aspiring to beauty is the only aspiration worth having.
This is especially true about Demi Moore. I read her autobiography, and it broke my heart. Her mother paid someone to rape Demi when she was 16 (seriously, the mom was dating this guy, and she needed help moving. She told him she’d give him a couple hundred bucks, the keys to her apartment, and the afternoon alone with Demi to do whatever he wanted). They’re other points in the book where she talked about the extreme lengths she’d go to, to get in shape for parts. She didn’t think she was a great actor, so she thought the least she could do was look the part. And even after conquering the industry and fighting for pay equity for actresses, she was so desperate for Ashton Kutcher’s love that she did everything she could to make him happy. She had been sober for 19 years and started drinking because he did. She agreed to open up her marriage and isolated herself from everyone else in her life. Brutal stuff. And it’s not that I’m saying pretty people have problems too, because even with all that, hers is a charmed life. It’s that I genuinely believe she spent the vast majority of her life believing her only value was her appearance and her only aspiration to keep the men in her life happy. Aging is probably a gut punch like someone like that.
that's exactly the point i was trying to make! being considered ugly by conventional standards and being considered beautiful by conventional standards can often be two sides of the same coin - we have a very different experience of beauty standards, and we both lose either way. there are things about demi moore's experience as a beautiful, thin, famous woman that i will never understand, and vice versa. but i also point out that my experience as a fat person radicalized me and offered me permission to opt out, which is not the same for everyone. i think there are plenty of people who have a similar experience to mine that, as you say, "spend the vast majority of their life believing their only value is their appearance and their only aspiration to keep the men in their life happy." ultimately, though, a movie does not have to speak to everyone's experience - in fact, i prefer them when they don't try! that autobiography does sound heartbreaking, and my heart genuinely goes out to her.
Actually, my initial assessment when watching the film was similar to yours. If anything, I think the message may have been about how beauty labor is not just futile, but harmful. Like, if women so close to the ideal still can’t get it right, it’s because no one can. And the director is kind of like God looking down on her hamster cage as we run on a wheel to nowhere like the silly little rodents we are. Don’t know if that makes sense.
I felt this way when I read Paulina Poriskova’s autobiography. Aging to her feels like such an acute attack because she was feeling things most women go through as tweens for the first time as a 60 year old. But I don’t know, something about Demi’s book really killed me. She was an incredibly capable person who found success and worked to cultivate her mind and her craft. But loving Ashton Kutcher paralyzed her. Anyway, sorry for rambling. Great read.
Oh and one more thing: have you seen Fargeat’s first film, Revenge? The protagonist in that one is a 22 year-old mistress/sugar baby. I’ve always wondered if part of the director’s messaging may have been: who do we as feminists’ extend our sympathy for? They were just some subtle ways she portrayed that woman as unlikable and in Reddit posts from male fans about the movie, you see it worked. They did not like that leading lady whatsoever and it made her revenge coup impossible in their eyes. I wonder if she may have been trying for something similar with her protagonist in the Substance.
i think the obvious hints along the movie were a conscious choice, somehow? even with all the in your face imagery about body/aging/stuff like that. cause, well, we see all that as so conpiscuos, but... would men feel like that too? I really don't know, rs.
and I really feel you when you say that being not conventionally beautiful changed the way you saw the movie. happened the same with me.
This definitely articulated something I felt when I watched the movie and then read others’ reviews after - I thought it was heartbreaking and fun in different points, but it just didn’t hit the inner sticky bits of me in the same way someone who maybe has way more invested in their appearance (for valid systemic reasons! But as you point out, we don’t all feel we have that option to begin with ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) would feel watching it. Ty for the nuanced response. I still loved it honestly, and am def interested to see what comes up for me on rewatch. Saw it referred to as a fairytale which definitely fits, particular the brutal old-school ones 🫠
thank you. I loved the film and I read a lot of negative reviews that made me feel that everyone who didn't like the movie disliked it because they didn't understand it, but yours proves that idea wrong.
I also read that "the director thinks we're stupid" several times and in that scene specifically I think that the many signs the old man was the young man, weren't for viewers, but were for Elisabeth because she was so deep in denial that she needed that many signs. But maybe I'm biased because I really liked the film.
edited for typos
that’s a totally valid reading of the scene. there was definitely a lot i liked about the movie also and i’m curious to see how/if my feelings change on a rewatch!
This was a lovely read, but I just wanted to add that I think aging and loosing one’s good looks is particularly hard and salient for Elisabeth Sparkle and the real life women like her because their entire life they’ve been told that the ONLY thing of value about them is their appearance. Moreover, from an early age, they’ve been conditioned to think aspiring to beauty is the only aspiration worth having.
This is especially true about Demi Moore. I read her autobiography, and it broke my heart. Her mother paid someone to rape Demi when she was 16 (seriously, the mom was dating this guy, and she needed help moving. She told him she’d give him a couple hundred bucks, the keys to her apartment, and the afternoon alone with Demi to do whatever he wanted). They’re other points in the book where she talked about the extreme lengths she’d go to, to get in shape for parts. She didn’t think she was a great actor, so she thought the least she could do was look the part. And even after conquering the industry and fighting for pay equity for actresses, she was so desperate for Ashton Kutcher’s love that she did everything she could to make him happy. She had been sober for 19 years and started drinking because he did. She agreed to open up her marriage and isolated herself from everyone else in her life. Brutal stuff. And it’s not that I’m saying pretty people have problems too, because even with all that, hers is a charmed life. It’s that I genuinely believe she spent the vast majority of her life believing her only value was her appearance and her only aspiration to keep the men in her life happy. Aging is probably a gut punch like someone like that.
that's exactly the point i was trying to make! being considered ugly by conventional standards and being considered beautiful by conventional standards can often be two sides of the same coin - we have a very different experience of beauty standards, and we both lose either way. there are things about demi moore's experience as a beautiful, thin, famous woman that i will never understand, and vice versa. but i also point out that my experience as a fat person radicalized me and offered me permission to opt out, which is not the same for everyone. i think there are plenty of people who have a similar experience to mine that, as you say, "spend the vast majority of their life believing their only value is their appearance and their only aspiration to keep the men in their life happy." ultimately, though, a movie does not have to speak to everyone's experience - in fact, i prefer them when they don't try! that autobiography does sound heartbreaking, and my heart genuinely goes out to her.
Actually, my initial assessment when watching the film was similar to yours. If anything, I think the message may have been about how beauty labor is not just futile, but harmful. Like, if women so close to the ideal still can’t get it right, it’s because no one can. And the director is kind of like God looking down on her hamster cage as we run on a wheel to nowhere like the silly little rodents we are. Don’t know if that makes sense.
I felt this way when I read Paulina Poriskova’s autobiography. Aging to her feels like such an acute attack because she was feeling things most women go through as tweens for the first time as a 60 year old. But I don’t know, something about Demi’s book really killed me. She was an incredibly capable person who found success and worked to cultivate her mind and her craft. But loving Ashton Kutcher paralyzed her. Anyway, sorry for rambling. Great read.
Oh and one more thing: have you seen Fargeat’s first film, Revenge? The protagonist in that one is a 22 year-old mistress/sugar baby. I’ve always wondered if part of the director’s messaging may have been: who do we as feminists’ extend our sympathy for? They were just some subtle ways she portrayed that woman as unlikable and in Reddit posts from male fans about the movie, you see it worked. They did not like that leading lady whatsoever and it made her revenge coup impossible in their eyes. I wonder if she may have been trying for something similar with her protagonist in the Substance.
i haven’t seen it but it’s definitely on my list!
These are such heart-wrenching details about Moore's life, especially her mother being completely unsafe. Thank you for sharing.
i think the obvious hints along the movie were a conscious choice, somehow? even with all the in your face imagery about body/aging/stuff like that. cause, well, we see all that as so conpiscuos, but... would men feel like that too? I really don't know, rs.
and I really feel you when you say that being not conventionally beautiful changed the way you saw the movie. happened the same with me.
that's definitely possible!
Brought me to tears <3
wow, thank you so much - so happy it resonated so much with you 💕
This definitely articulated something I felt when I watched the movie and then read others’ reviews after - I thought it was heartbreaking and fun in different points, but it just didn’t hit the inner sticky bits of me in the same way someone who maybe has way more invested in their appearance (for valid systemic reasons! But as you point out, we don’t all feel we have that option to begin with ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) would feel watching it. Ty for the nuanced response. I still loved it honestly, and am def interested to see what comes up for me on rewatch. Saw it referred to as a fairytale which definitely fits, particular the brutal old-school ones 🫠
so happy it resonated! i love the way you put it, i so agree - that deep feeling of recognition just was not there for me.
I think you are incredibly astute here. So about looking for work…where do you live?
thank you so much for reading! i live in brooklyn.
Ah Brooklyn. We are always looking for amazing dog sitters/house sitters! We are in Baltimore